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- 回复 smartman
- thanks for comments.
赌博客: 多谢分享你的经历，我也想多谈一点我读史的感受：
人成功了以后总是要把自己的过去重新粉饰一遍的。一个民族也是这样。现在的西方文明认祖传承自古希腊文明，于是 ...
1. this article has won too many comments but unfortunately i have no time to follow all the comments. so, i am simply replying to yours only.
2. as for ancient greek legacy, similar as China Spring-Fall War Country Dynasty (I made up this word), there were many, many schools and legends at that time. It is not fair for us now to pick up a particular, non-popular extreme school and draw conclusions based on this single school. The reality is, the most influential consequence nowadays in western countries originating from ancient Greek culture are from Socrates, Plato, and Aristotle (let me call them SPA, they are teacher - student - student). You could easily find out their legends are overwhelming in western culture and society for thousands of years.
My point, we should recognize the primary school from ancient Greek legends, not to overemphasize too much on certain extreme schools.
3. Socrates/Plato emphasizes on ruling the society by elite classes. This is close to Confucianism that emphasize personal development. Both Socrates and Confusion implied that governing the society needs elite personnel who are well educated, reflected and well maintained with mature mindset. That is what Confucianism said, “Xiu Shen, Qi Jia, Zi Guo, Ping TianXia” (enhance yourself, manage your family, rule the country, unite the entire world). I think their major difference is Confucian emphasizes Ren, (i.e., love people), taking care of people kindly and gently, while SPA emphasizes rationale and consistent rules.
4. 近代我们被西方打败，只能说明我们科学技术上的落后，不能因此而否定我们原有的崇高的价值观念 – this was a 100 year topic ever since Qing Dynasty. SPA emphasized empirical sciences and developed the modern scientific theory. We have been trying for over a 100 years to import western science and technology while preserving our own culture. It was a failed practice until, arguably 30 years ago. So, some scholars claimed again science and culture are separable. Regardless of whether we want to maintain or preserve our own Confucianism culture, we know we must observe, respect and learn from and catch up with western science & tech, which has been upheld by ancient greek SPA legacy for thousands of years.
Overall summary: don’t over-emphasize a particular, non-dominating school's influence from ancient greek culture.
- 回复 smartman
- i largely support you in your discussion.
xqw63: 等级制度的鼓吹者在西方难道没有被抛弃吗？难道咱们东方人却要把这个被现代文明证明是糟粕的东西还继续保持下去吗？
..."我文章主要想要主张坚守东方价值观的，没有具体。"...
i have a feeling that LZ dislikes western culture and system, so he promotes 坚守东方价值观. 东方价值观 contains many dirty,out-dated stuffs that should be abolished and LZ has no idea to explain which should be preserved and which should be abolished. he simply promotes an empty concept to hold against the current prevailing western system and culture.
if i might be a bit too picky, i don't think LZ has a thorough understanding of Confucianism and Ancient Greek schools. For example, the kernel of Confucianism is Ren Zhen, while Ren is "Love People". The most popular ancient greek legacy is Socrates-Plato-Aristotle school that has been dominating for thousands of years, not the Machiavilian scheme. Please allow me to speak frankly that LZ had better read Plato's <<Ideal Country>> and Confucian's <<Lun Yu>> and <<Meng Zi>> again carefully.
- 回复 xqw63
- 你说的有道理，楼主自己也无法解释清楚东方的价值观
smartman: i largely support you in your discussion.
..."我文章主要想要主张坚守东方价值观的，没有具体。"...
i have a feeling that LZ dislikes west ...
- 回复 没有放屁
- 骆家辉的提包实际上是个手提电脑。是在飞机上消磨时间的，究竟要10个小时啊。他们一家五口居然连手提箱都没有带一个，肯定是全部由国家托运了，究竟是全家来中国啊。用的可以由使馆提供，但衣服总得要自己带一些吧？ 但他们实际一件真正的手提行李都没有。不坐大使专用车，不是不愿坐，也不是不肯坐，而是嫌大使专用车太小，坐不下他一家五口。其实他如果愿意自己开车，后排坐三个孩子，也不是完全坐不下，不过是要挤一些，那有坐商务车舒服？？那辆商务车不会是备用车，肯定另有用处，谁让他是大使？ 是第一把手，他要坐，谁敢说不？？
至于坐经济舱，他的确是驻中国大使中第一个，引起记者提问，十分正常。没有人问，才不正常呢！！
- 回复 赌博客
- 我倒是很想同你进行些深入的探讨，但由于谈孔子，谈苏格拉大，柏拉图，我希望你也用中文，这样我理解你的观点会比较清晰
smartman: i largely support you in your discussion.
..."我文章主要想要主张坚守东方价值观的，没有具体。"...
i have a feeling that LZ dislikes west ...
- 回复 赌博客
- 首先，在古希腊，智者学派根本就不是一个小学派，在当时甚至比苏格拉底影响更大，苏格拉底之死据信也与此学派有关。直到后来柏拉图的阿喀穆德学园的建立以后，柏拉图以其伟大的理念世界战胜了智者派。但智者学派的影响却从没减弱过。
smartman: thanks for comments.
1. this article has won too many comments but unfortunately i have no time to follow all the comments. so, i am simply replying ...
其次，就如同中国自汉武帝以来，奉行的多是“内用黄老，外示儒术”的治国方略。其实，西方又何尝不是如此呢？苏格拉底的伦理，柏拉图的理想国从来没有被西方实践过，相反，智者学派历来被统治者所推崇。而且当今西方价值观中的平等，自由为智者派主张。
- 回复 赌博客
- 你还真是门儿清，多谢支持哈
没有放屁: 骆家辉的提包实际上是个手提电脑。是在飞机上消磨时间的，究竟要10个小时啊。他们一家五口居然连手提箱都没有带一个，肯定是全部由国家托运了，究竟是全家来中国 ...
- 回复 没有放屁
- 因为我每次坐飞机，也都带这么一个手提电脑，不过还要多一个手拉小箱子。有时还带一个双肩背。当然我是屁民，不能和大使比。你这个帖子写得真好，思维清晰，实事求是。我在时事版向网友也特别推荐大家来看这个帖子。
赌博客: 你还真是门儿清，多谢支持哈
- 回复 心如水
- 这不是团派的问题，现在的官僚资产阶级或说权贵资产阶级是瓜分国有资产的产物，道德沦丧的根源。江泽民是罪魁祸首。
qxw66: 共党背叛了革命，背叛了人民，自己无耻的变成从前革命的对象，这样，从以前的大义凛然，变成了现在做贼心虚。。。结果西方（３００年来杀人上亿的恶棍）居然可以 ...