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- 1 回复 shen fuen
- 中国人都要记住1900年八国联军入侵:
http://www.backchina.com/blog/91063/article-240618.html
- 1 回复 刘淇昆
- cy60 : 用强盗的逻辑去思维强盗的行为, 强盗当然是100%的正确！
回复：
康有为在八国联军进京后，从新加坡写信给日、英等各国领袖，代表了维新派对战争的看法和对列强的期望：“阁下：在排外阴谋中，西太后和她的谋臣端王、庆王、荣禄、刚毅、董福祥、赵舒翘和马玉昆狼狈为奸，巨大的灾难已经降临我国。您现在充分意识到卑鄙的义和团和清朝反动军队犯罪而造成的全部破坏。我感到欣慰，在北京的外国人能坚持不屈，直到被救。所有懂得国际公法的中国人都真诚地哀悼德国公使的被杀。现在和平在望，联军已经打败了废黜我国合法君主的卖国贼部队。我请求您注意下述建议，我相信，如能实行，将保证：(1)公正地惩罚真正的罪犯，(2)对遭受非法攻击的各国人民和代表实行赔偿，(3)永久和解我国的国际关系……您将受到亿万人民的感激” 。康有为痛斥了“后党”和义和团的排外阴谋及其给国家带来的巨大灾难，颂扬了八国联军平息暴乱的功绩，提出了惩兇、赔偿各国损失、使光绪皇帝复位等正义诉求。
无独有偶，联军破京三天之后，8月18日，当时在广州的孙中山与“兴中会”骨干八人联名致书香港總督卜力，表达了革命党人的愿望；这就是《致香港总督历数满清政府罪状并拟订平治章程请转商各国赞成书》。孙中山等人在给英國政府的上书中总结了清廷在庚子战争中的十大罪状：“诲民变、挑边衅、仇教士、害洋商、戕使命、背公法、戮忠臣、用偾师、忘大德、修小怨”。他们请求英國政府联合各国，一举推翻满清政权，“除去禍根，聿照新治”；提出了遷都、成立中央政府、各省自治等“平治章程”六則 。
康有为、孙中山对列强的呼吁、期望，清楚地表明了维新派和革命党人——当时中国社会变革的前驱——支持、欢迎八国联军，视联军为惩恶扬善的正义之师。
请问：康有为、孙中山是“用强盗的逻辑去思维强盗的行为”吗？
- 1 回复 W_Y_J
- 看看外国人是怎么描述八国联军进京的掠夺的：
In a research article, Kenneth Clark states: "Following the taking of Peking, troops from the international force looted the capital city and even ransacked the Forbidden City, with many Chinese treasures finding their way to Europe."
看看美国水手描写八国联军中的德国人强奸、杀戮中国妇女的：
A U.S. Marine wrote that he saw German and Russian troops bayonet women after raping them.
- 1 回复 西部华人
- 日本军队当时确有驱逐鞑虏恢复中华的口号，联军在天津可谓秋毫无犯，但在北京也确实有部分军人参与抢劫，有个英国老人说他父亲就去过maderin，他爷爷就曾随军进北京，当时军营规定出营时间，出营的可以带回物品只要说是买的就没人管，入夜不许出营，可英军中的华人营和印度营入夜还有人进出，英军卫兵在街上常常大怒禁止路人大小便。他曾随父亲在非洲驻军，现在China军队也大量驻军非洲，让他感到时代变得太巨大。
- 1 回复 W_Y_J
- 看看外国人是怎么描述，八国联军进入北京后如何实施掠夺的：
In a research article, Kenneth Clark states: "Following the taking of Peking, troops from the international force looted the capital city and even ransacked the Forbidden City, with many Chinese treasures finding their way to Europe."
看看美国水手描写的，八国联军中的德国人对中国妇女进行的强奸、杀戮：
A U.S. Marine wrote that he saw German and Russian troops bayonet women after raping them.
- 1 回复 W_Y_J
- 八国联军在北京烧杀抢掠遭到西方国家国内的批评，批评者包括著名作家 - 马克 . 吐温。八国联军对北京抢掠，也使得美国和欧洲国内对他们国家强制中国接受他们的文明和宗教开始反思。看看以下外文报道：
The military occupation of Beijing and much of northern China became an orgy of looting and violence in which foreign soldiers, diplomats, missionaries, and journalists participated. Reports of the behavior of the foreigners in Beijing caused widespread criticism in Western countries, including from Mark Twain. While the rescue of the besieged foreigners in the Legation Quarter was seen as a proof of the superiority of Western civilization, the sordid aftermath of the siege may have contributed to many people in the United States and Europe reevaluating the morality of forcing Western culture and religion on the Chinese.
- 1 回复 shen fuen
- 一个为了推翻“后党”使光绪皇帝复位, 一个为了推翻满清政权使汉人治国不惜拜倒在入侵者脚下.....都是政治流氓!
刘淇昆: cy60 : 用强盗的逻辑去思维强盗的行为, 强盗当然是100%的正确！
回复：
康有为在八国联军进京后，从新加坡写信给日、英等各国领袖，代表了维新派对战争的看法和
- 1 回复 W_Y_J
- 八国联军对北京的抢掠被当时的一名美国记者描述为：“西班牙侵占南美洲之后最大的掠夺”。看看外文报道：
The occupation of Peking became, in the words of an American journalist, "the biggest looting expedition since Pizarro".[31] Each nationality accused the others of being the worst looters. Missionary Luella Miner said, "The conduct of the Russian soldiers is atrocious, the French are not much better, and the Japanese are looting and burning without mercy".[32] The British applied a process to maintain some sort of control. They held "loot auctions" every afternoon except Sunday at their Legation. The proceeds were then shared out by a prize committee across the troops.[33] Nor were the American soldiers free of guilt, although Gen. Chaffee banned looting. "Our rule against [looting] is totally ineffectual", said an American chaplain.
- 1 回复 W_Y_J
- 看看外文如何报道外国传道士如何抢掠北京的：“那些常驻北京的外国公民和传教士抢掠的最多，因为他们更加熟悉北京。” 此外，看看外文报道八国联军在中国农村对中国的农民、妇女和儿童进行杀戮的：
The civilians and missionaries who had been besieged were some of the most successful looters, as they were familiar with Peking. Some of the looting could be justified. Missionaries such as the Catholic Bishop Favier and American Congregationalist William Scott Ament had hundreds of starving Chinese Christians to care for and needed food and clothing. However, looting for necessities quickly became looting for profit, widely publicized by journalists—many indulged in looting on their own while condemning it by others.[35] The Chinese in Peking also indulged in looting and set up markets to sell the proceeds of their efforts.[36]
The foreign powers in Peking sent out punitive missions to the countryside to capture or kill suspected Boxers. There was much indisciminate killing by the foreign troops. American General Chaffee said, "It is safe to say that where one real Boxer has been killed since the capture of Peking, fifty harmless coolies or laborers on the farms, including not a few women and children, have been slain."[37] Most of the punitive missions were by the French and Germans.
- 1 回复 W_Y_J
- 看看八国联军在胜利之后，如何让清朝政府割地赔款的：
Following the fall of Beijing, Cixi sent Li Hongzhang to begin negotiations with the alliance. The result was the Boxer Protocol which required the execution of ten high-ranking leaders who had supported the rebellion, as well as payment of 450,000,000 tael of silver as war reparations. The Imperial government's defeat further weakened the Qing Dynasty, paving the way for its overthrow in 1912. During the fighting, 270 missionaries were killed, along with 18,722 Chinese Christians. The allied victory also led to further partitioning of China, with the Russians occupying Manchuria and the Germans taking Tsingtao.
- 1 回复 borninheaven
- 当年八国一定是认为正义的，也打赢了，报复了，也拿了赔款。朝廷里的洋务派也认为是正义的，至少把拳匪和支持拳匪的都杀了，之后他们得势了。如果联军推翻满清，让孙中山等革命党上台，那民国政府一定也认为是正义的，但没有，所以，之后的民国和如今的共和国都不会认为这是正义的，这是政治正确的大是大非问题。义和团匪们和朝廷中的支持者必然认为联军不正义，头都给砍了！太后和朝廷也无所谓，赔点钱割点地，可朝廷还在。后人认为正义还是不正义，看你站在哪一边了
- 1 回复 刘淇昆
- 请问，你的英文引文中有“割地”的内容吗？请勿在此信口开河。
W_Y_J: 看看八国联军在胜利之后，如何让清朝政府割地赔款的：
Following the fall of Beijing, Cixi sent Li Hongzhang to begin negotiations with the alliance. The
- 1 回复 富翁遇到杀人狂
- 有道理你就说，我可以理解为你理亏词穷吗？你的回复里，某国怎样怎样，又是美国怎样维护帮助中国，告诉你，所有派军队到过中国的国家，没有好东西，都是敌人，我们欢迎友好往来，不欢迎派军队进驻，可以继往开来不揪历史，但也不会忘记历史！
sun1161: 你这种比喻可谓“驴唇不对马嘴”，，跟你理论如同“秀才遇到兵，有理讲不清”，悲哀啊！中国有你这种80后？如何成为“强国”？
我不是80后，而中国也正在走向富强，80后的年轻人也会接力继续这种建设，对于我的祖国，我个人永远支持和看好，祖国强大就是历代人所建设的！
- 1 回复 刘淇昆
- 《多维网》转载了“八国联军乃正义之师”。如所周知，该网早被中共收购，head office在北京。
富翁遇到杀人狂: 我相信作者是个敌对国家的文字奸细，如果真是中国人，我诅咒他穷困潦倒一辈子，作者太无耻啦！
中共网站主动登载此文，尊驾却气急败坏，如丧考妣。“皇上不急太监急”，此之谓也。
- 1 回复 sun1161
- 你是不是80后你自己最知道，现在你这代人口是心非谁知道你怎样？祖国强大你还投奔外国帝国主义？回国参加祖国建设？当年刘少奇、彭德怀比你还雄心壮志，为了解放“全人类”比你还吃苦耐劳，甚至冒着枪林弹雨几次死里逃生，最后还是被你的“祖国”人民给打的头破血流，不给饭吃，不给水喝，死的时候连名字都是假的，无葬身之地！现在国内造假食品、物品、文凭、、、、假，希望你不假！最后，永远支持的祖国并非是你的，那是你一厢情愿罢了，不信你去问问你温爷爷？
富翁遇到杀人狂: 有道理你就说，我可以理解为你理亏词穷吗？你的回复里，某国怎样怎样，又是美国怎样维护帮助中国，告诉你，所有派军队到过中国的国家，没有好东西，都是敌人，我
- 1 回复 笑臉書生
- 翻老所见极是，今天方看此文，甚为赞誉!宜献10朵花，限于网规，只能献一朵
fanlaifuqu: 要献花！一定要！包括那些随时捡来反一反的对日政策，也值得书书。我是没这个能耐！但拒绝洗脑！