Discussion with a western guy on recent HK protests and Chairman Mao

作者:snsnjsn  于 2014-10-9 14:31 发表于 最热闹的华人社交网络--贝壳村

通用分类:政经军事|已有10评论

关键词:8 Oct, 2014Hi Jack, there are lots

本帖最后由 snsnjsn 于 2014-10-9 13:34 编辑

Night, 8 Oct, 2014

Hi Jack,

It's a pleasure for me to have a chat with you on the protest in HK recently.

Seems that we are viewing the event quite differently. That's good. It's a chance for me to hear difference and learn more. 

As I understand, there are lots of bias in western media on this topic. There are many articles that are not showing complete picture and omit some facts intentionally or unintentionally. Some articles are trying to mislead and some are even trying to demonize China and China government.

Even though, there are still some balanced articles and points in English media. Basically, I agree with the viewpoints from Singapore government. Please see the below links for the points from PM Lee Hsien Loong and FAM K Shanmugan.

PM Lee answers questions on Hong Kong protests, Tan Pin Pin film on political exiles
http://www.todayonline.com/singa ... lm-political-exiles

China ‘unlikely’ to give in to HK protesters: Shanmugam
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/n ... ive-in/1397786.html

For the Chairman Mao, most Chinese people believe that he is the supper great man and hero for Chinese people and for human being. I shared the same view. To understand a person, the most important thing is to learn the details of the person and think deeply till the root, the more we know the more we can understand. 
It's hard for me to get some English translation for the works of Chairman Mao. However, I still got a bit of his articles in English in below link. Please have a look. thanks.
http://***/s/blog_4a01e6540100kyz3.html

found some speeches of Mao:
http://afe.easia.columbia.edu/special/china_1900_mao_speeches.htm


Good night.

regards,
Sn

==========================================================================================

Morning, 9 Oct, 2014

Hi!
Yes interesting to discuss, you always learn new stuff.

Some comments.

·         As I understand, there are lots of bias in western media on this topic. There are lots of articles that are not showing complete picture and omit some facts intentionally or unintentionally. Some articles are trying to mislead and some are even trying to demonize China and China government.
There is ALWAYS bias in media, western AND Chinese!

I know that the protesters will ‘lose’, but they will make an impression which (hopefully) will make Hong Kong more free.

As for PM Lees comments:
These are peaceful demonstrations that’s good. They’re not in Tiananmen, they are not in Zhongnanhai so that lowers the temperature but even then it’s a difficult situation for the Chief Executive and his team to manage and I’m quite sure there’s a large team on the Chinese side in Beijing watching this very very carefully. As long as it’s student demonstrators, and you are talking about Hong Kong matters ... Hong Kongers looking after Hong Kong. These are things which best of all Hong Kong can sort out for itself.

So I agree with what he said also!!!!

But maybe I interpret what he said differently, this is my interpretation:
·         This should be settled in HK by HK with no interference by China or the rest of the world. (I.e. no military from China!!!!!!!)
·         It is OK to protest (as long as you do it peacefully)
·         This is protests by Hong Kongers and they are not influenced (directly) by other countries

As for Mao …. It is clear that Mao did lots of good, but he also did a lot of evil, I know that you will only be influenced by Chinese sources and I by Western, but some comments from the English wikipedia page:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ma ... Cultural_Revolution

·         Mao himself claimed that a total of 700,000 people were killed in attacks on "counter-revolutionaries" during the years 1950–52
·         However, because there was a policy to select "at least one landlord, and usually several, in virtually every village for public execution",[171] the number of deaths range between 2 million[171][172] and 5 million.[173][174] In addition, at least 1.5 million people,[175] perhaps as many as 4 to 6 million,[176] were sent to "reform through labour" camps where many perished.[176] Mao played a personal role in organizing the mass repressions and established a system of execution quotas,[177] which were often exceeded.[167] He defended these killings as necessary for the securing of power.

I cannot justify taking 700,000 lives for a good cause.

Hitler did lots of good also:
Also from Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler

Unemployment fell from six million in 1932 to one million in 1936.[176] Hitler oversaw one of the largest infrastructure improvement campaigns in German history, leading to the construction of dams, autobahns, railroads, and other civil works. 

-- Jack Sarin

=============================================================================================
Afternoon, 9 Oct, 2014

Hi Jack,

Yes. good to share and thanks for the comments and ideas. interesting...

Agree. Everything has two sides. No absolutely right or wrong, it's just to what degree the thing is wrong or right. That's why we have to view different points and have a balanced understanding and make a relatively fair judgement.

As such, to view a thing, to me, the important thing is to understand the big picture in the context first. So that I can master the main key points. Just like an examination, we may lose some scores in some topics, and we may gain some scores in other topics, but the key topics which take more scores will decide the final result.

Another aspect, the nature of the thing, is also very important to consider. i.e., the justice, the good intention play a big part for my view. The doctor is using a knife to save our lives, the knife in the hands of a bad man may kill people. 

Actually, I support democracy, I hope not only HK, but also the China mainland and even the whole world will have democracy, peace, justice, fairness and happiness. That's the ideal. However, we have to be realistic, otherwise the dream is only a dream. We also have to admit that we, as human being, are not perfect in terms of selfishness, morality and other ugly sides. We have to self-control to overcome these flaws to get a better tomorrow. So, the order, the regulation, the design are important for our advancement. As software engineers, we understand that the program will not work without following the correct instructions/statements/procedures. 

Every country and people are coming from their unique history and culture, the different time and progressive procedure are needed for them to reach somewhere naturally. We want the crops grow well and have good harvest, however pulling up the seedlings to help to grow fast will lead to the death. 

Another consideration, as I mentioned, the imperfection of human being have decided that not all the people are helpful and doing the constructive things to make others better. Lots of bad plots are also there. We have to think carefully and be alert.

For HK, the arrangement is One Country Two Systems, One country goes first and then two systems. That's for the interests of the whole China including HK. Not understanding and not respecting the facts/arrangement will go nowhere. In this sense, if the business impacts not only HK but also the whole China, every person in China should have a say, it's not something that can only be decided by the people inside HK.

For Chairman Mao, he made some mistakes (not evils), but compared to his contribution to China and to the world, he is constructive and positive to a great degree. One comprehensive measurement for your consideration. Before he won China (1949), the population is around 542 Million, the average life of Chinese people is around 35 years (world average: 47), and most are illiteracy; when he left the world (1976), the population is around 937 Million, the average life of Chinese people is around 65 years (world average: 57), and most can read and write. He also liberated women as a whole class.

The key two ideas for his life to strive for as below:
(1) Liberate the people (his words: "where there is oppression, there is resistance.")
(2) Serve the people

Guess what, if he were living in nowadays, for the current HK protest, he probably will be standing with you together to support the Students. 


regards,
Sn
- See more at: https://www.backchina.com/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=1233681#sthash.y0Tqig2E.dpuf

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发表评论 评论 (10 个评论)

4 回复 snsnjsn 2014-10-9 23:23
这么多年来,好不容易发了这么一篇原创日志,竟无一人评价,连个砖头也没赚到,悲惨哪!
我自己做沙发了!
3 回复 qxw66 2014-10-9 23:59
我不认为毛这次会支持学生。
4 回复 snsnjsn 2014-10-10 00:05
qxw66: 我不认为毛这次会支持学生。
我也不认为。
是为了策略需要。
3 回复 qxw66 2014-10-10 12:48
snsnjsn: 我也不认为。
是为了策略需要。
到底会不会?
3 回复 snsnjsn 2014-10-10 20:31
qxw66: 到底会不会?
我不认为毛这次会支持学生。
那样的假设是为了事对方容易接受。善意的策略而已。
4 回复 qxw66 2014-10-11 00:55
snsnjsn: 我不认为毛这次会支持学生。
那样的假设是为了事对方容易接受。善意的策略而已。
干吗呢,什么奥妙,要言不由衷?应该是作者本人支持占中的缘故吧。
4 回复 buweizhai 2014-10-17 09:27
snsnjsn: 这么多年来,好不容易发了这么一篇原创日志,竟无一人评价,连个砖头也没赚到,悲惨哪!
我自己做沙发了!
hahah
3 回复 buweizhai 2014-10-17 09:28
qxw66: 我不认为毛这次会支持学生。
毛泽东会引导学生的。
2 回复 qxw66 2014-10-17 14:20
buweizhai: 毛泽东会引导学生的。
毛泽东会正确到引导学生的
3 回复 金竹陶器 2014-10-26 23:02
Mao did lots of good, but he also did a lot of evil (ZT):认同这个。
历史上看,毛公的贡献是巨大的,终止了中华人自宋以来近千年的受虐。

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